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Rebels Darth Maul in Star Wars Rebels

Discussion in 'Star Wars TV' started by StarWarsFan91, May 22, 2013.

  1. Mother_Talzin Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Aug 23, 2014
    star 3
    It was established in the episode that all the Nightsister spirits needed to restart the clan was living bodies. Likewise, the planet itself is immensely powerful on its own, and only needs to be harnessed. Look at what Talzin was capable of - the same could have been true of Maul, had he stayed on Dathomir and tapped into the spirit ichor.
  2. Jedi Knight Fett Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 18, 2014
    star 7
    Ezra seemed to have destroyed their later though
  3. The Shadow Emperor Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 29, 2012
    star 4
    And Ventress had Vos kill the Sleeper, which pretty much ends the prospect of someone making more of the Water of Life.
  4. Jedi Knight Fett Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 18, 2014
    star 7
    Alter I meant alter not Later
  5. Vorax Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 10, 2014
    star 5
    Actually Dathomir had great value for Maul. The Water of Life would be utilized by him successfully and perhaps more than once,(off camera). He successfully was communing with long dead Nightsisters for some time there since they knew his name and he made promises to them there was stuff going on for a while since the end of Season Two to the beginning of Season Three. Stuff they never show or tell us really. So he was communicating to them via the Force and or through manipulations of the Water of Life by drinking it, like he and Ezra do on the show. He clearly also had working knowledge of potions and spells, their powers and their weaknesses. Maul did not seem to care about the Nightsisters all that much since he had no intention of giving himself or Ezra to them and he did willing tell Ezra how to defeat them. Maul gave Ezra lots of freedom of choice throughout the series. Nightsisters value cunning and strength, so its not likely they'd care one way . Not even Talzin did completely as Maul was worth more to her than the entire clan, although she remained loyal to their ways and attempted to aid and restore Ventress. They are warriors and follow a survival of the strongest methodology .

    The altar was more certain witches portal back to the living. Its apparent that Talzin was not alone in such abilities and its equally apparent that the Waters of Life are still very much alive and well during rebels. The Altar is not the Water of Life. And Talzin was not attached to that particular Altar in SOD. So Dathomir and the Waters are more important and possibly those born on Dathomir may have strange and unusual powers and abilities in themselves and the Sleeper may reside in all of them, so to speak.


    The Water of Life was dead or rather dormant up until the events following Dark Disciple that is. The waters were described an inky black, but not the planet itself. The Sleeper was one method to generate the Water of Life, but not the sole one, seemed it was the creature's connection to the Force that may of been responsible since Ventress' successfully body rejuvenated the Water of Life and it turned them green again by the end of the book . And she became one with the Force and yet like all Nightsisters was able to maintain some form of consciousness postmortem . Maul was born on Dathomir and in the Nightsister cavern to Mother Talzin .The stronghold of their power, and a center or nexus of the Dark Side. The comments made by the production or whatever are plain weird , misleading & perhaps even bogus.

    Ventress took Vos to Dathomir, about less than a year since the destruction of the Nightsisters, because of its a source of Dark Side power, and not just to reconnect.

    Dathomir has living organisms, from wild life to vegetation to whatever, so how could it be a "dead world"? Makes no sense and its dumb. And is a Force world, a planet of the dark side so it would be a natural place of power. Even a source of debasement and empowerment for those able to harness the Force, those such as Maul and the Nightsisters.

    He followed as she descended, looking first at her, then gazing upon the red-tinted, mist-wreathed world. He stiffened abruptly. Ventress suspected he was sensing the grip the dark side had upon her birthplace; how strong it was, and how deep it went.


    Vos stepped forward into a wide-open area of flat stone. Here and there he saw remnants of ordinary life: overturned pitches and vases, braziers, bowls.

    It would have been one of the most beautiful places Vos had ever beheld, if it had not been so steeped in the dark side. It was strong here; controlled, directed. At the far side of the open area, he saw an altar, and wondered what sorts of horrors it had borne witness to. Perhaps once, this had been no more than a cavern, a neutral place, eventually permeated by energy left over from centuries of dark work. Or perhaps it had always dwelled on the edge of darkness.



    Ventress also stated to Vos:


    Rest now my love. I brought you to Dathomir. Your sisters don't have to wait any longer. You told me you were reborn here, here, in this pool. I hope its all right for me to return you to its waters."

    He took a shaky breath. He had thought he would dread this moment, but he was surprised to feel more sense of quiet peace than pain. This was the right thing to do, and he knew it, bone-deep. Slowly, reverently, he lifted his arms as if he were holding Ventress in them. Her body rose into the air in response. Vos bore her in the Force to the still, dark pool and gently lowered her. Slowly, the black water closed over her, accepting her into its embrace. Her face was the last of her to disappear, pale and bearing an expression of serenity she had never known in life.

    He blinked. Was the water. . . changing color?

    Tendrils of mist began to rise, green and glowing. Green, like the Dathomiri magicks Ventress had spoken of; green, like the Water of Life. Vos caught his breath. Soft susurrations reached his ears, sounding almost like -

    Kenobi was beside him immediately, his lightsaber unlit but in his hand. "Vos, what's happening?"

    Slowly, incredulously, Vos understood. His heart ached with bittersweet joy.

    "Listen," was all he said.

    Kenobi's eyes widened. he heard it too, now the whisper of women's voices. The Force had reclaimed Dathomir's wayward child, and as Vos reached out in it to send the woman he loved a final farewell, he thought he could make out a single world: sister.

    Asajj Ventress, at last, had come home.


    Same with Malachor:

    [IMG]
    [IMG]

    It also happened to be a place where he knew housed a battle station with a galactic life destroying super weapon.
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  6. Vialco Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 6, 2007
    star 4
    Here's a Maul question:

    With the lower half of his body lost and replaced with cybernetics, would Maul still have the potential to conjure Force Lightning?

    Let's say Maul keeps the Sith Holocron and it teaches him the secrets of the Sith that Sidious never revealed to him. Could Maul, half machine now, be able to use that ultimate power of the Dark Side of the Force?

    Or was his potential so reduced with the loss of his legs that he no longer possessed the power to harness such an advanced ability?


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
  7. The Shadow Emperor Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 29, 2012
    star 4
    Force sensitivity is about the concentration of midi-chlorians in each individual cell, not the net total across their whole body. Maul's upper half is just as connected to the Force as it's ever been.

    And if Vader is any indication, losing limbs and suffering grievous injuries doesn't hamper one's Force potential. The only reason Vader can't produce Force lightning is because he has no fingers to channel it through.
    ConservativeJedi321 and Vialco like this.
  8. Canyon D Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Nov 17, 2015
    star 3
  9. Vorax Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 10, 2014
    star 5
    Well its weird in some ways, mainly cause its fiction and its the writing and directing. But I don't think having that power is all that defining or was all that great as it did not save The Son, Talzin, Dooku or Sidious. Dooku for reasons unknown completely abandons it in his duel in ROTS which made 0 sense, while in AOTC and so often in TCW he uses it any chance he got which was often in duels(not to mention they had him doing Force acrobatics).


    The main reason why Sidious rescues and salvages Vader we learn in TCW was because of Maul's return, despite his injuries and maybe cause of them since these Dark Siders empower & fuel themselves on hate, anger, pain, emotion ect, so . The other reason was because he had nobody else, a Sith Apprentice is not easy to procure which was also a theme in SOD. Maul knew Sidious was bluffing about not needing Dooku anymore. Anakin was already a pseudo apprentice of Palpatine's since he was a yougling, all the actual training he left to the Jedi, he just manipulated and twisted him, planted seeds and all of that kinda thing all the while Dooku because his new official Sith Apprentice. I think they would've reasoned if Maul or Vader attempted Force lightning it may caused self combustion,lol. I don't really know, seems kinda artificial to not allow them to use Force Lightning. Canon's Force lightning is more sparse than it was in the old EU, which is both good and bad.

    I think in order to reign in someone like the experienced and venerable Dooku, would be with the knowledge of use of Force Lightning, while this weapon seems something perhaps a master only trains his Apprentice very late in. Although its likely that Sidious may of learned it from Talzin. But its likely this Sith talent was around with the Ancient Sith on Malachor since in the Maul comic it appears like what could be Sith Lightning is being used(above image). But still, its equally possible that talent was lost to the surviving Sith of Bane's legacy and it was something that needed to be relearned.

    Loss of body tissue and mass seems to play some part in limiting or hampering the Force wielder, how it works is unknown. Since the mircro-series introduced "the ghost hand" stuff, where one did not need a limb to use the Force, and its still present in the films, Vader uses his phony hands and still conjures the Force. So the Force is presumably emitting through what, his stumps or mind, or both. It is also equally perplexing why canon so far has not reintroduced Cloned Force sensitives, yet. Skin, and various and cloning and grafting sciences exists in canon, so its also equally perplexing why didnt they allow for Maul and Vader to simply clone themselves or graft harvested clone parts and organs. Vader takes Bacta baths to attempt to heal his damaged body and regain some resemblance of his former self, so obvious he's not fully intent on remaining in a self-prison. You get mixed vibes sadly. Maul was more fortunate to have 3 different superior combat chassis's with no cut off switch and still function after being attacked by Force Lightning which kinda renders the self combustion theory useless. While its Force Lightning that completely does in Vader. Its strange, why Vader never got himself better repaired, especially with all the tech and advances that existed even in TCW days, and after Cylo there was no real excuse to not upgrade.

    Just because we did not see Maul use Force Lightning, does not mean he could not use it, same with Vader. There is that possibly it may show up at some point either or both of them. Maul, Savage and Talzin and Vader so far demonstrated Force Unleashed style & level powers in combat.

    If The Son and Talzin are any indication, then It does not appear limited to the Sith. Other Dark Side aligned beings may be able to use it.

    Force Lightning seems pretty useless if you have a Lightsaber or the opposing side has that ability too(like Talzin) so that could explain why Sidious never trained Maul and/ or Vader, because they would be too powerful and too dangerous more than they already are with what they have. So far only Yoda was able to somehow Force absorb the Dark Side energy shot from Sidious but we don't to what cost it had to his body. It seems mainly good against unarmed or disarmed opponents or stealth strikes. Talzin directly uses it more as full assault combat skill , Force bubble shield with precision Ligtning,lol. Maul in SOD looked to have built up an immunity to the Force Lightning to where it was losing its effect much like in the old Dark Horse comic where Maul was immune to it and back then though the EU was still canon and TCW did atleast accept that story as canon while filming.
    Last edited by Vorax, May 18, 2017
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  10. Canyon D Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Nov 17, 2015
    star 3
    I agree completely.
    On a side note, what comic was that post with Maul and Sidous from @Vorax?
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  11. Vorax Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 10, 2014
    star 5
    Its from Marvel's Darth Maul #2 comic.

    The other issue is that Immortal Rur has no body, but is some kinda disembodied sentience (en)trapped in a kyber-looking crystal land still able to be of the Force and wield it in some strange form that even resembles the Nightsister magicks with all that green mist effect. Also size isnt really supposed to matter . And if the Force is an energy field, then why does completeness matter, the midiclorian stuff is awkward from the OT to the PT and now the OT and the ST to the PT. Lots of strange and conflicting stuff.
    Last edited by Vorax, May 18, 2017
  12. Canyon D Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Nov 17, 2015
    star 3
    hmm I havent caught those yet, I'll be on the lookout for those.
    I have always looked at it on a case by case basis. Like Maul for instance, trained from birth by Palps to be a complete package, he has the drive to be as powerful if not more powerful than his master, meanwhile, the Jedi teach against wanting power and using it for themselves. Hence why a single Sith like Maul is more powerful than almost an entire order of thousands of jedi minus a select few. Also force lightning is not that common, Palpatine and Dooku are the only ones able to use it in the new canon that we are aware of so far if I'm not mistaken, and Palps trained dooku how to use it. So most likely since Maul was presumed killed by Obi-wan on Naboo so early in his apprenticeship, Palps never got to the point where Maul was ready to learn the technique of Sith lighting.
  13. Vialco Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 6, 2007
    star 4
    The benefit Force Lightning offers its user is that you're always armed with a deadly weapon. That nobody can detect or take away, like they can a lightsaber.


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
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  14. Canyon D Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Nov 17, 2015
    star 3
    plus it just looks good
  15. Mother_Talzin Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Aug 23, 2014
    star 3
    I honestly would have preferred Maul use the Dathomiri spirit ichor lightning that his mother wielded, it was far more visually stunning when she surrounded herself in a bubble and tore into the battle droid army. The Nightsister magicks could and should have been used my Maul, it would have made Rebels not only more interesting, but could have made him more of a threat to the Empire.
  16. Vialco Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 6, 2007
    star 4
    I was considering having Maul use red Force Lightning instead of blue. But I couldn't find a way to justify it, as the only Force-wielder we see use that in canon is the Son. I thought the red of the Sith Holocron could explain it.

    I don't think the green lightning would work, just because all of the green spirit ichor came from Talzin, and with her death, all of the Nightsister magick effectively vanished.

    Does anyone know more about the different colours of Force lightning and what they mean?
  17. Mother_Talzin Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Aug 23, 2014
    star 3
    Spirit Ichor comes from the planet (Dathomir) itself, not one specific person, like Talzin. She was able to manipulate it more than any other Nightsister, but wasn't the only wielder. Its very possible a Force sensitive being or a surviving Nightsister / Nightbrother could return to the planet post-Rebels and conjure its power once again. I would have liked to see Maul trash an Inquisitor with it.
  18. Vorax Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 10, 2014
    star 5
    Looking so far at the comic, he already for Jedi even before TPM, he can use his cloak to straggle a single victim while in engaging in multiple enemies at once and use Force use knife with precision accuracy while blinded with his head down. He had all he needed, but he was kept back under the edict of Sidious to not kill Jedi as it would foil his plans within plans - that is the only reason why it was not him that would not wipe out the Jedi Order single handily but he was able to and was supposed. That order tested the very fabric of Maul's training & patience, since he was a powder keg waiting to go off, always being prepped to kill them but always being ordered to stand down and await the order.


    So Maul had what he needed to destroy the Jedi when he was unleashed officially by Darth Sidious in TPM. He could've used it to strike down Obi Wan in the shaft, but aside from that its usage is still very cherry picked by the users we see, used only in usually small durations and at certain times. Possibly the lack of training his apprentice in Force Lightning could've been a factor in why Sidious trained Dooku in it, at least in part. But it does not explain why he did not train Vader in it either before or after his fall on Mustafar. Maybe the timing was off, but still, why not train an actual Darth, a legit raised padawan. It still seems to hang on some secret and old person weapon, Maul and Vader may not of gotten to know it until late in their years. Or maybe they did who knows. So, Force Lightning apparently was not a prime consideration in facing down armies of Jedi in either Maul's case or or Jedi Temple invading pre- broken Vader's case while apparently it was something given to Dooku, the torpedo instead. Its something still awkward. None of the other Nightsisters appeared able to use Force Lightning like Talzin was , and she had few different forms or variants of it that she implemented even on the show(and SOD comic). Force Lightning can be dangerous to the user even, case in point Sidious himself.

    Lightning while cool and all, does not appear paramount.


    Maul on Rebels was shown using stuff we never seen him or others do, so his abilities were limitlessness really if they chose to actually have given him a run on the show. We do have the 15-16 year gap and stuff before TPM and stuff occurring after Season Five of TCW and beyond. Plus we never learn what knowledge he gained from the merging of the holocrons, both Jedi and Sith cron's were opened and combined. So he gained access to Lightside as well as the Presense, the keeper of the Shadow Lore, the long dead Sith Lady's cron. And knowledge is supposed to be literary power to these sort of people.

    Nightsisters have a belief in the afterlife, a life after death. Maul appears to have searched or held onto a similar one as well since he did not fear a death nor the acceptance of it as long as it had meaning for him. Which makes also him more akin to EU's Krayt who also viewed viewed death as a passageway to something far greater unlike typical Sith Lords that believed in nothing after death. Maul's self created Dathomir shrine and mausoleum I think pertains to all of this.
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  19. Darth_Accipiter Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Feb 2, 2015
    star 3
    you mean it looks cool

    [IMG]