Lit STAR WARS REBELS (SEASON 4 spoilers and rumors should be TAGGED)

Discussion in 'Literature' started by JoinTheSchwarz, May 20, 2013.

  1. MercenaryAce Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 10, 2005
    star 5
    The bothered to make a model for a Mon Cal cruiser, it would be weird if it was only for one brief appearance.

    ......then again, that is totally what happened with the wookiee gunship.
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  2. Vthuil Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 3, 2013
    star 5
    I do wonder what happened behind the scenes with those Wookiees. They were in the very first episode, they promised to come and help if the Ghost crew ever needed it... then they were never, ever heard of again. That's weird.

    (My leading theory is that it might have been because the models were considered too low quality once the show's budget rose, but it would be too expensive to redo them).
    Last edited by Vthuil, Apr 20, 2017
  3. Dawud786 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 28, 2006
    star 4
    I'm honestly fine with that. I didn't like their Wookiee models.

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  4. spicer Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 14, 2012
    star 4
    Ok, so one thing that has been bugging me since Season 2 ended (and apologies if this has been answered/explained before, I must have missed it): Why did Yoda mention Malachor to Ezra and imply that he goes there? Because it seems to me that their trip to Malachor did way more harm than good (Ahsoka presumably dead, Kanan blinded, Ezra got dangerously close to falling to the Dark Side...). What did Ezra learn from going to Malachor that Yoda couldn't tell him instead and spare him all the trouble?

    An OOU explanation would be that Yoda being mysterious is cool and the events that transpired in Twilight of the Apprentice are more dramatic and fun than say, Yoda telling Ezra what he needs to know and wrapping things up in 2 minutes. But the IU explanation is?
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  5. Karl0413 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 11, 2015
    star 4

    Well, it did end with the death of three inquisitors and put Maul on the path to his final showdown, along with keeping an old but still operational Sith superweapon out of Palpatine's grubby hands. Don't know if Yoda foresaw that or not.
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  6. spicer Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 14, 2012
    star 4
    We don't know if Yoda foresaw that, sure. But even if he did, was it really worth sacrificing so much to achieve, well, not that much in the grand scheme of things? And if those were Yoda's goals (I doubt it), wasn't there a different way to accomplish them?
  7. Cynical_Ben Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 12, 2013
    star 4
    I'm too sick with the con-flu to really give a lengthy answer, but my reading is that Yoda did his best to point out to Ezra that his path (searching for a martial, violent solution for the Sith) would only lead to more pain and suffering for the galaxy, because he knows that Ezra can't win that fight. When Ezra persists, though, he figures that the best shot the kid has is to blunder into the swirling Force that's clustered around the old Sith weapon-world Malachor, because he knows that will lure out Vader. He trusts Ahsoka and Kanan to be able to handle Vader and the Inquisitors with Ezra's help. However, I don't think he counted on Maul being there (because Maul's whole existence past his initial death is to be a perpetual monkey wrench in other people's plans) and thus doesn't realize how much danger he's putting them all in. Maul's machinations wind up activating the temple and his presence is the main reason that the finale went the way that it did. Without him being there, who knows?
    Last edited by Cynical_Ben, Apr 20, 2017
  8. ManWithoutAStar Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Mar 19, 2017
    star 2
    Yoda gives them opportunity to destroy the Sith. They fail. Emperor foresaw the event as well and sent Vader in to get the weapon.
    I always liked to read that event as something like a shatterpoint. You have Maul hiding on Malachor, trying to acces the superweapon, and 8th brother is searching for him. Once you send in Kanan, Ezra and Ahsoka, more inquisitors arrive and at the end, Vader himself. There were plenty of opportunities to take the Sith out, but Maul got greedy and selfish and tried to sieze the temple for himself. Had he waited and all 4 of them would confront Vader they would have won and with the weapon in the Alliance's hands, the Empire could suffer more blows.

    Yoda was not sure of the outcome of the battle but sent them to teach them what happens if you want win by fighting. If they won, then they secure a victory, if they loose, they will learn a lesson. At least, this is my take on it.
    Last edited by ManWithoutAStar, Apr 20, 2017
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  9. Jedi Princess Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Mar 25, 2014
    star 2
    It's a bit colder than we like to think of Yoda being, but I ultimately agree with this. Yoda sending Ezra to Malachor was basically Yoda giving up on Ezra. Remember that whether or not any of them is consciously aware of it, the Inquisitorius is on its way. This is likely the last chance Ezra will have to speak with Yoda, and Yoda is trying desperately to impress on him that the role of a Jedi is not in war but in peace. But Ezra hears none of it, all he wants is to fight, to destroy. So Yoda gives up. You want to fight the Sith so bad, kid? Here you go. A whole Sith planet. Maybe you'll see all the ash-corpses of the Jedi who thought the same way you do and you'll wise up and turn back. Or maybe the Sith will just kill you. You're clearly not interested in actually becoming a Jedi so leave me alone, go fight.

    Like I said, it's darker, colder than we're used to with Yoda, but it's in line with "You will be [afraid]" Yoda from The Empire Strikes Back.
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  10. Barriss_Coffee Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jun 29, 2003
    star 6
    See, if it was like that -- making Yoda cold/dark and sending a barely-trained kid off to die -- I'd rather they never introduced Yoda into the plot to begin with. I never got the impression Yoda would do that, not from anything in the PT or ESB/ROTJ. I could maybe buy it if Yoda foresaw something like Ahsoka being there and simply miscalculated, but... I dunno, just look at the poor fellow after ROTS. The guy's heartbroken. He blames himself. He doesn't want the responsibility of telling another young person -- and to Yoda, everyone's a young person -- to go off and sacrifice themself for a seemingly lost cause. He had trouble enough letting Luke go in ESB, and that was only because 1) he trained him himself, if briefly but hard-core, and 2) he knew Luke's being Anakin's son might give him some leeway. But Ezra? I can't believe he'd lower himself to sending a lamb to the slaughter.
  11. Vialco Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 6, 2007
    star 4
    I agree with the more optimistic theory that Yoda sent the Jedi to Malachor to stop the Empire from getting that battlestation and to use Maul to destroy the Inquisitors and Vader. As has been said above, they had a chance. Ahsoka, Kanan, Maul and Ezra vs Vader would be too much even for the Sith Lord to handle. They asked for a chance to defeat the Sith. They failed.

    Yoda did not send them to Malachor to kill them. That is not in his character at all. He saw an opportunity to destroy half of the Sith Order through these Jedi proxies and he took it. At this point, both Yoda and Darth Sidious are above the galactic conflict in a sense. Sidious doesn't have to lower himself to deal with anything personally, with an entire Empire at his beck and call. Yoda can't leave Dagobah without risking exposure. So both Masters of the Force use proxies and servants to do their bidding.
  12. Jedi Princess Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Mar 25, 2014
    star 2
    I'm not saying he wants Ezra to die, more that he recognizes that is the path Ezra is already on and mournfully accepts that he is unwilling to change. He does the same thing to Luke in The Empire Strikes Back, he does everything to tell Luke that this is not how a Jedi acts, that there are bigger things at stake here, but when Luke refuses to listen, he resigns himself to it. "There is another" feels like a very similar moment; it's not that he WANTS Luke to die, but he has to accept that the path Luke is on, Luke will probably die, and he's not going to do anything more to try to stop that.


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  13. Dawud786 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 28, 2006
    star 4
    Given where Yoda is in his spiritual journey, I suspect he was reading the will of the Force and just telling Ezra what he needed to hear. Kind of what I interpret him and Obi-Wan doing with Luke, a lot of that was sort of playing to Luke's natural defiance to subtly guide him to doing what really needed done.

    I don't read Yoda or Obi-Wan as mere mortals by the time of the OT. Their consciousness is much higher by that point.

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  14. Vialco Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 6, 2007
    star 4
    Ezra's on the right path. He wants to fight the Sith. The same thing Yoda and Obi-Wan want Luke to do. It's just that those two can't help Ezra, they have to focus on what they believe to be the best hope. Luke Skywalker.


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  15. Jedi Princess Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Mar 25, 2014
    star 2
    And yet Yoda does everything short of smacking Ezra upside the head trying to convince him that this is the wrong path. And at the same time, the Force is preparing Kanan for this possibility that his Padawan may die or fall, given the path he's on. And Ezra gains nothing from fighting the Sith; Kanan is blind and Ahsoka is dead (from his point of view). His need to destroy the Sith later causes the destruction of a Jedi holocron, a sacred repository of knowledge, and later causes Kanan and Sabine to be possessed by evil spirits. And since THAT wasn't enough to warn him off, he nearly dies in the desert, not in battle against the Sith but simple exhaustion. And the first words he hears after coming to? "You're in the wrong place, Ezra Bridger."

    Nothing in the narrative justifies the idea that Ezra is on the right path. The first correct decision he makes in his hunt for the Sith is when he abandons it in "Twin Suns." He is rewarded for this decision during the siege of Atollon; had he stayed on Tatooine, there would have been no one to bring Clan Wren into the battle and more of his loved ones would have been wounded or died.


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  16. sidv88 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 22, 2005
    star 4
    Yoda should have told Ezra what Obi-Wan told him (more or less)--to defeat the Sith is to go home and continue work with the Rebellion. If Ezra says that he won't accept it, then Yoda should repeat that this is the answer, this is it, and leave it at that. In no way should Yoda have told Ezra to go to Malachor. Just because Ezra is acting like a jerk doesn't give Yoda carte blanche to punish him in cruel and unusual ways. Seriously. That's the way of the Sith--Vader and Ozzel, etc.

    At this point, I'm almost suspecting that vision wasn't of Yoda at all, but possibly of Maul posing as Yoda.
    Last edited by sidv88, Apr 21, 2017
  17. Ghost Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Oct 13, 2003
    star 7
    I still don't understand why Ezra was ever obsessed with "destroying the Sith."

    He doesn't know Palpatine is a Sith.

    He didn't know Vader existed until the Season 2 premiere... and did he ever even know Vader was a Sith?


    It was just kind of nonsensical.
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  18. AdmiralNick22 Fleet Admiral of Literature

    Manager
    Member Since:
    May 28, 2003
    star 6
    I wouldn't be surprised to see the MC80 again, mostly as it is an easy asset to use in any shots of the fleet. The model they created was specifically noted not to be for close ups, so it seems destined to stay in the background until they make a more detailed one. I do hope to see some Mon Cala stuff in the final season. :D

    --Adm. Nick
  19. Jedi Princess Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Mar 25, 2014
    star 2
    He learned Vader is Sith right after meeting him. First he asks Kanan if Vader was an Inquisitor, Kanan responds that it is something worse. "A Sith Lord. The ancient enemy of the Jedi."
  20. Cynical_Ben Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 12, 2013
    star 4
    I think he sees the Sith as the embodiment of everything he hates about the Empire, a "face" for something much larger than he can really comprehend (at least in the first two seasons). The fear, the oppression, the rule-by-strength. He lived on Lothal under jackboots his whole life, and the whole first season is basically the fires of rebellion being stoked in him to fight those very same things. I think Ezra sees destroying the Sith as a means of truly damaging the Empire. He thinks like a kid does (and a lot of grown-ups do as well) that he looks for the most powerful representative of a large organization he can find to vent his displeasure with. The fact that the Sith happen to be old enemies of the Jedi just underlines to him how much they need to be stopped.
    Last edited by Cynical_Ben, Apr 21, 2017
  21. Vialco Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 6, 2007
    star 4
    "Kanan, what was that? Another Inquisitor?"

    "No. Something worse. A Sith Lord. The ancient enemy of the Jedi."
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  22. Ghost Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Oct 13, 2003
    star 7
    1. How does Kanan know?

    2. How come Ezra doesn't say "destroy Vader" since he never learns there's more than one Sith?

    3. He meets Vader in the premiere on Lothal, and on Malachor. Other than that, Vader is absent. How did that one incident on Lothal make Ezra go into "I must destroy the Sith!!!" mode? It just doesn't make sense. He didn't even know Vader existed before.
  23. tatooinesandworm Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Jul 30, 2015
    star 1
    Are you looking for one of these? You seem to be trapped.[IMG]


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  24. Charlemagne19 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 30, 2000
    star 8
    I frankly think people have a very poor idea of Yoda here.

    Yoda sent Ezra to find more about the Sith and he ended up stopping the Sith from gaining a Super Weapon.

    Yes, Ahsoka died.

    But that's how it goes in war....why Yoda tries to AVOID it.

    Good people die in war and Yoda knows it.
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  25. Vialco Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 6, 2007
    star 4
    Because the Rebels can beat everyone else in the Empire.

    Stormtroopers? Zeb and Sabine can trash squads of those mooks.

    TIE Fighters? Hera can blow dozens of those suckers apart.

    Inquisitors? Kanan beat their leader in single combat.

    Vader's the only real threat to the Rebels. They've stomped everyone else.